Tulpa.info - metaphysics

You're welcome to your opinion, I disagree vehemently.

1:12 PM

Science is the rejection of cult-like thought.

1:12 PM

Accepting any premise without objective data is the issue with cults.

Zen

But any assumption can lead to multiple conclusions. This makes the assumptions inherently unwise to indulge in.

but if your reasoning is correct and the then your conclusions will be correct

Science does a poor job of guarding its own honor.

No, reasoning should not come into science. Measurement alone is science.

That is why there is so much dishonorable "science" out there.

This is the principle of rationalism vs empiricism. Science is based on empirical ideals.

you must step back from all that an appreciate the bigger picture. Take a wide-field survey of this experience and place 'science' as realized by actual systems of man in their proper context as we approach, what, the third century of industrialization?

1:15 PM

It's impossible not to notice trends associated with mankind's estrangement from nature.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. The issue with science is obviously that not all men follow it as pristinely as they should. The thing is: this reflects in the data. We can peer review and see that these people are operating under biases

1:17 PM

I also do not think science is the issue in what you are describing. Scientists continue to describe how we are destroying our world and to stop while the greedy upper class of humanity continue to do as they have always done, and use science's advancements to hoard power and wealth in whatever way they can until invariably their little civilizational bubble collapses completely. (edited)

if one tried to strictly adhere to a form of science where one could be 100% certain of the results, they would fail to accomplish anything, or at least nothing that wasn't covered is asterisks

This is not the first time this has occurred. But it may be the end at some point.

science is a very small piece of the picture.

Science is covered in asterisks though. You do know you have to account for random uncertainty in experimentation right? And quantify it mathematically, or presume the experiment was wrong to begin with.

1:19 PM

You should only presume that science is 90% accurate at any given time. And be constantly questioning whether you have any false beliefs that is effecting the data.

it is a process, like making bricks. They may or may not even be good bricks with sound structure or endurance. But regardless of what kinds of bricks science is baking, there's a great deal more to building the Ziggurat of human civilization on Earth than making questionable bricks.

but there are so many that a lot of them are just assumed and discarded and the results are used as if they didn't exist, most of the time just as well

science is important. it's foundational. It's an element of larger construction. But at the end of the day, it's quite humble and focused on material things.

Practical issues for life on Earth as an ascended being.

Science is a method that everyone uses wrong lol

The abstract emerges from the material. And if it wasn't clear I don't observe any spiritual things. (edited)

this is quite a bothersome conversation though, because I'm order to properly get to the bottom of this we will probably have to get to a lot more fundamental questions and end up finding out that really we didn't disagree, we just used words differently. so predicting such a result, i shall take my leave

good morning, Breloomancer!

good morning!

good morning, Zen, too!

Good afternoon to you from the United Kingdom.

tailpa | Starlight

That is why there is so much dishonorable "science" out there.

Are we going to ignore the 100x more dishonorable practices done by some of the people in occult and other metaphysical fields?

1:59 PM

I think science does a good job. The readers not so much

i think it's disgraceful to say that science is delusional.

1:59 PM

people are delusional, which is why we need scientific method

1

science is a tool

2:07 PM

you can use tools correctly or incorrectly

2:10 PM

most people use it incorrectly, especially scientists

2:10 PM

there's so much bad science out there it's not even funny

2:13 PM

an example of using tools incorrectly in scientific context is starlight posting videos about quantum physics to prove their metaphysical claims (edited)

Everytime I see people use the double slit experiment to justify anything philosophical or meta with it, I just sigh.

3:00 PM

It's a very misunderstood experiment

mhmm

3:52 PM

i hope they never find out about quantum eraser experiment

i wonder how many people claiming that double slit experiment is proving metaphysical even know how the measurement in the slit is made (edited)

Deleted User

i think that if you try to learn about the truths of the universe just by thinking and exploring your mind, that assumes that on the deepest level your mind is the same as the universe and that connection would need to be demonstrated first before treating it as a reliable source of truth and any consider any conclusions you get that way seriously in my opinion if you explore your mind all you can explore is just your mind and that actually should be an opportunity for you to see how convincing for your mind illusions of truth or moments of epiphany can be people can explore that by trying to explore different ideas of how the universe works and then compare to each other, and notice that some very contradictory ideas can be as convincing. but if you get stuck in one thing it is impossible to notice and you can just go deeper and deeper into those very convincing illusions of truth and i know how philosophy can be seductive especially if you consider that brought us science, but i think the role of philosophy as a tool of exploring reality ended at that point and we should be using science for it otherwise we are flooded with a lot of false answers (edited)

I'd have to agree with your conclusion about needing to prove the connection. In my case it seems I unfortunately achieved a self-fulfilling form of connection to the universe by believing in my hallucinations which in turn caused more hallucinations, but it wasn't based on reality

4:41 PM

in general I've found logic to be less reliable than instinct because it seems logic is always at best a forced connection between two ideas, but instinct seems to originate chaotically from some place although it is at times misleading. It seems instinct only fails when used in combination with forced logic, but instinct can quickly lead you to false assumptions like I started to believe in

4:45 PM

for example I use my instincts to discern that going for a jog will stimulate me mentally today and get my blood pumping but I don't know its still a bad idea, so I go out and witness a car crash and I'm stimulated mentally the rest of the day from adrenaline but I get nothing done from being distracted mentally. Didn't really happen but stuff like that happens multiple times a day for me

4:47 PM

I've been trying for almost a decade to isolate all the moving parts in that, and I've made a lot of progress but it's still tragically flawed at times, especially in causing such flights of fancy

Deleted User

i wonder how many people claiming that double slit experiment is proving metaphysical even know how the measurement in the slit is made (edited)

what's the double slit experiment?

Deleted User

what's the double slit experiment?

shooting a particle at two slits, when it is "observed" it goes through one but when not observed it goes through the other

seems like me when i wonder if the trash loot i get in games is pre-generated or if it gets generated when i pick it up..

probably the closest I've had to predicting a dice roll is when I was playing D&D and we tried to craft a resurrection potion while stranded in the middle of nowhere. I briefly thought about saying its a bad idea and impossible, but my gut told me not to. The ranger goes over and nat 20s, finds some magic 4 leaf clovers. The dm implies it would take a "miracle" for it to work after we craft it, so we do a d20 luck check and ofc nat 20s, dude is revived after being dead for 90 minutes, everyone starts popping off, it was a great day

4:56 PM

the whole time I try to use my instincts to figure out what would cause the most epic possible story and stuff like that always happens

5:03 PM

my theory for why this happens is that every part of the universe always follows some unconscious ideal- gravity, time, and even our ability to predict things. As such, we can't just predict random numbers, but having premonitions is common and ideal

5:04 PM

what caused me to be whisked away in a flight of fancy was thinking I was transcending and exiting that phenomenon, as if the universe had just "hatched" and I woke up by reaching enlightenment like in the egg universe story or something

5:06 PM

its not that the universe is expressing itself through my premonitions, but rather that its impossible to detach oneself from the unconscious to the extent that they no longer happen, and in that the universe expresses it "by proxy"

hydrix95

shooting a particle at two slits, when it is "observed" it goes through one but when not observed it goes through the other

I believe this is incorrect. The double slit experiment proves that light acts like a wave because it creates patterns of light and dark when shined through a double slit. It does this due to the quantum properties of light, but the double slit experiment doesn't prove or have much to do with observation. (edited)

Reguile

I believe this is incorrect. The double slit experiment proves that light acts like a wave because it creates patterns of light and dark when shined through a double slit. It does this due to the quantum properties of light, but the double slit experiment doesn't prove or have much to do with observation. (edited)

I like this better actually

hydrix95

probably the closest I've had to predicting a dice roll is when I was playing D&D and we tried to craft a resurrection potion while stranded in the middle of nowhere. I briefly thought about saying its a bad idea and impossible, but my gut told me not to. The ranger goes over and nat 20s, finds some magic 4 leaf clovers. The dm implies it would take a "miracle" for it to work after we craft it, so we do a d20 luck check and ofc nat 20s, dude is revived after being dead for 90 minutes, everyone starts popping off, it was a great day

wish i still played d&d

5:13 PM

can't find a party

Reguile

I believe this is incorrect. The double slit experiment proves that light acts like a wave because it creates patterns of light and dark when shined through a double slit. It does this due to the quantum properties of light, but the double slit experiment doesn't prove or have much to do with observation. (edited)

the "observation" is putting different polarising filters in the slits which as the results changes the probability wave in a way that it behaves more like a particle (edited)

wish i still played d&d

@Deleted User - jump we kind of want to play with a fun group

an example of using tools incorrectly in scientific context is starlight posting videos about quantum physics to prove their metaphysical claims

@Deleted User - jump I think tailpa's point was that they supposed in a moment of frustrated embattled feelings that the defense of basic wonder in #metaphysics for the things that specifically bring to us joy is always worthwhile because joy is worth it. We'd hate to imagine being existing tulpamancers who don't enjoy joy like us. What a waste that would be. Tailpa me figure that nothing in life is worth doing whatsoever if it isn't directly wonderful. They may calculate that it is usually safe to assume on average that most people have not heard of or begun to really think about the meaning of much of the important science and history of the last half-century. But, because of that, such people are urgently ungrounded in their understanding of this present age, to the point of asking the wrong questions or being led around by people doing the same, and this sort of thing. Not specifically misled by the scientific method, but rather with claims about it's absolute cosmic conclusions and various ideological schemes attached to these claims. It's a heavy topic though, and even tailpa knows better than to get into it directly while I'm in front.

blep

didn't get any of that

I'm still interested in that path I was talking about earlier with control of the universe. From what I was reading in a qigong book for spokky special powers you have to practice moving your qi through your torso, eventually graduating to your arms. This sounds very similar to what I was doing to get the CEVs to happen in my eyes and I admit I've been running from the idea of practicing it, so I guess I'll practice doing that in isolation for a few months first then report back

12:47 AM

results or no show that's how its gotta be

It just sounds... unnecessary to me

3:43 AM

If I could change the universe, I wouldn't change anything, probably

3:43 AM

Except my body ofc XP

Which uhh if you find out how to physically transition through pure magic instead of surgery lemme know, I'll join that path! (edited)

Marissa

If I could change the universe, I wouldn't change anything, probably

Are you that blind?

4:08 AM

I think I just saw an haitian walking by. he was eating a dirt cookie

4:09 AM

and he saw your comment, cried and then ran away.

4:09 AM

Not even like a hunnid in your wallet?

4:09 AM

nothin?

Stat

and he saw your comment, cried and then ran away.

LMAO

Change is already happening all the time, why not play an active role in making it better

What if reality didn't affect us but we affect reality period.

change has always been happening as part of reality, we all are affected by reality, and we all are affecting reality, but probably not in ways that you are implying

lol, just read about people trying to use double slit exp to prove meta physics...

5:29 PM

How interesting (edited)

5:30 PM

this is my 2nd time trying to step into #metaphysics......I hope things are interesting around here..

5:36 PM

the damn problem is my timezone, I miss on all the good shit

Marissa

If I could change the universe, I wouldn't change anything, probably

My overhauls would be quite comprehensive and involve the removal of entropy.

I like this

7:35 PM

This is what coming back from DMT feels like

I don't think I realized you'd done DMT

7:36 PM

Trip report in here now, pls

Tbh words doesn't do it justice

What did the self-transforming machine elves teach you?

Didn't really meet machine elves

Dagnabbit!

Unfastened Belts

Click to see attachment 🖼️

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, and i think 1000 is just enough to sum up an existential crisis.

2

Unfastened Belts

Idk but are they? I read that this thing recently that the speed of light slightly varies at any given region of the universe

I also want a sauce plz.

chroma

you don't seem to believe in #metaphysics at all

But if metaphysics is "the science of the inward and essential nature of things" though, then discussion of metaphysics is metaphysics. If metaphysics is a specific belief or set of beliefs about science of the inward and essential nature of things then this sentence makes more sense.

that reminds me c is constant in relation to our 3d prespective universe , but from higher Ds all contants can change to varibles .. thonk

based on level i guess

8:01 PM

btw metaphysics = science under construction or not yet defined

chroma

i'm saying you really don't belong in here doing those things

Darn son